On the description of what a General Manager role looks like at the college level

Sure, well, Jon, thank you very much for having me on. Obviously, our relationship goes back multiple years, and it's great being able to come back in a place and have these relationships, and be able to talk in a forum like this, but yeah, to answer your question. So the general manager for a college football program. I think if you go program to program, ask the same question to my peers and individuals, they may give you a slightly different answer from place to place. But I think the overarching unifying objective for all those jobs is to help the head coach of the program with the management of the roster. So again, this new changing landscape of college athletics and college football, there's a monetary element. Obviously, that's a known thing, that's an obvious, and that's the change, right? But it is constantly working with what is the vision? What's the strategy to execute that plan? Working every day from really recruiting, roster retention, acquisition planning, what are we gonna do for the future to ensure this roster is comprised at a competitive level?

On his time with the Chicago Bears helped prepare for his current role

Oh, it's been huge, it's been huge. And really that was my desire of taking that opportunity, that shot to work in that league, right? Of really you start to see the world from a whole different lens and perspective of pro football. Obviously, you played this game for a long time, and certainly a different lens and perspective at that level. That was paramount to now coming back to college football with, again, a brand new economic landscape, right? Everyone wants to say, well, we're becoming the NFL. Not quite, not really, right? There's still some very inherent differences, but the consistency between pro football and college football now to what we are seeing currently is there's a level of compensation, a level of our players being able to benefit from their name and his likeness that's directly related to what they do in representing the schools that they play for.

On what it will look like when revenue sharing becomes official

So right now, what we're looking at from a timeline perspective. So April, we believe we'll get to this final settlement date for the House versus NCAA case, which started way back, which received preliminary approval in- I believe it's April 7, right? April 7, yes. So back in October, Judge Wilkin gave preliminary approval for that settlement. I believe that will be finalized hopefully in April. I guess that's hope was the key word there. Once passed and approved, this will then allow institutions starting July 1st of 2025 to be able to directly compensate student athletes for their name, image, and likeness. So in this case, every school participating who was opting in to this revenue share plan that would be come about once settled here would have $20.5 million per athletic department to allocate and distribute as they see fit. So schools and programs around the country, departments are deciding what those allocation levels are and how to best use that revenue received from media rights deals to then compensate their student athletes.

On how much planning the football program is done with the slice of the pie it will get from revenue sharing

So it's a daily, daily task. Absolutely, absolutely. It's a little bit cliche, but we're trying to fix the plane while we're flying it as well. And that's just the reality of this moving target environment. So it is something we are planning, we are talking about every day, and it's been that way for months of how to best execute this. My time in the NFL for just, again, seeing the world through that lens, John, as you well know, valuation in the NFL is pretty straightforward. And I've explained this to others before, but it's your production and it's the comps, and it is some of the comparable values. So based on the level you're performing, the expectation of how you will perform, how you have performed, there should be an appropriate compensation level. So again, very straightforward in that league. In college football, the hardest part about this is operating without any comps, without comparable values. All we know is the rumors and the innuendo of what we believe other institutions and other schools are doing, but it's not that transparent, ubiquitous information out there that exists in a real market like the NFL.

On the difficulty of assigning values to different players

Yeah, no, absolutely. So if you look at it in two ways, and again, using the NFL as our guiding light here, there's the free agency piece. So NFL free agency, exactly that. You have verified production, you have stats, you have on-field performance that you can directly evaluate to then lead you to what the comps are. Now you come to the NFL draft. So now you're projecting based on what you believe the performance is gonna be based on the traits that you've witnessed display, the college production, everything else. So that's the system, right? So the NFL has shown us and given us the blueprint of how to do this, right? So both in free agency and in the draft. So that's most synonymous with free agency is the retention of our roster, the potential acquisition of, let's say, quote-unquote free agent targets that could be transfers, and then recruits are more synonymous with the draft. So again, you're making big projections, you're making big educated guesses on what that level of production is going to be, but it comes to the skill and the system that you have imparted to how you get to some of those projections. But the other difference is, I believe this current environment is most synonymous with pre-CBA, current CBA in the NFL. And those who may remember the Sam Bradford deal, right, as the first overall pick, I think that was the last of the previous CBA. Last first, yep. Yes, and so again, huge upfront money, huge guaranteed money. There was a shift in the CBA that the players are a part of. Right, the rookie cap. The rookie cap. So you then redistributed the money again to veteran players that have had more production. We're taking all those things into account, right? So we're operating to be competitive in the environment to acquire players in the recruiting process. We have great belief on what we're doing from an evaluation perspective, but there's still a great unknown, just like the draft. The millions of dollars and the time and effort that's spent from 32 teams, you're still shooting 50%.

On what makes the college game different from the NFL

Yeah, talking to a lot of friends, peers in the NFL, and the first thing they think is like, oh, this new environment, it's gotta be pretty straightforward and pretty easy. You know, in the NFL, and John, you know this, and you've been in those seats literally, when you're a free agent and another team offers you the most money, you're going. There's no decision. Like, that's the decision, they've offered the most. That isn't the college environment yet. Now, it could be, right? But the individual still has their own agency on where they decide to go. So it's not just a transactional environment of team A offered X, which is higher than team B. This is still a decision based on relationship, based on wants, based on needs, desires of, maybe it's geographic, maybe it's a family push, whatever it may be, players still have the agency to decide where they wanna go. It's not just taking the highest offer. What I believe our competitive advantage can be going forward, the culture that we've developed here that started years and years ago, that obviously peaked at a national championship level, right? Was that 2023 national championship team the most talented of the country? Maybe, certainly extraordinarily talented guys, but it was the best team in America with the best culture in America. That's what can be our competitive advantage in this environment today. So I've had these conversations with others, with donors, with boosters, alums, who have said, you know, how do we survive in this environment? You know, one of the biggest challenges is, for example, guys on your roster that are not starters, that may be better than starters at 75 other schools in college football right now, that they're essentially being, trying to be poached all the time from these other institutions, other places, some covertly and some not so covertly. How do you keep the semblance of depth? How do you keep the semblance of a developmental program, of keeping guys in your roster, at your institution? And I truly believe, and Coach Moore believes this, and really his vision, and what we're executing as a staff on a daily basis, is it's our culture, right? It's the buying that we receive for the authentic relationships, the authentic value, right? The difference in the NFL and college football, I think comes down to value is not all currency. The value of the experience at Michigan, the value of the development, the degree, what you do while you're here, the man you hopefully become when you depart, there's still tremendous value in that. That's not all currency.

On selling the Michigan degree in a NIL world

So our hope in direct conversations with guys, the level of compensation that all individuals now have access to is phenomenal. It's great, right? Across the board, not just here at Michigan, but everywhere else in college football, right? This was a long time coming about the ability to be compensated for your name, image, and likeness. Our hope is at the end of the journey here at Michigan, whatever these numbers are, hopefully those are rounding hairs, right? For your later career. So could the potential to earn more in the short term at another place exist? Absolutely. Could the long-term value of the experience, the development, everything you're gonna have here, and again, the Michigan degree means something. Tremendous amount, right? I tell individuals all the time, we're the rare institution in the country that plays football and our athletic program is at the highest level and at the highest level of academic credibility and as an academic institution. We're a unicorn of an institution. And our market, who we sell best to, who hears this pitch, who recognizes what that value is, that's how we built this thing of finding those right fits. This is not just the talent accumulation environment. This is finding the right fits and building a championship team based on that.

On others not hosting spring games due to fears of tampering

For sure, for sure. I'm a great believer in the axiom that your culture in any organization, that is your immune system to handle outside threats, adversity, anything else. So of course, that's always going to be present, but hopefully that we can rely and dig deep on what we're trying to instill and build here to defend against any of those other notions. I think that when programs are worried about that, there are probably other issues, maybe known or unknown to fans and public in general, but this is a different environment. There's no sense in arguing about what we used to have or what was once in place. Those that will do exceptionally well and those that have done exceptionally well in this changing environment are those that have been willing to adapt and be able to see around corners to what's coming next.

On whether the NIL model is sustainable

Yeah, so the expectation with this revenue share model is that the revenue share model will account for the majority of the compensation. But true NIL, really the spirit and intent of what's allowing student-athletes to benefit from their true NIL, that will still be in place. So that's the goal, is saying how can we eliminate some of this other pay-for-play to get back to, if we distribute revenue that's achieved from our participation in college athletics at an institution, and we still allow our student-athletes to benefit from their name engine likeness, that's theoretically a much more stable environment. But this is going to be a challenge, there's no doubt about it. Speaking of just slightly off-topic, one of the biggest questions I get both publicly and running into fans and alums, anyone else, Michigan supporters, there's an expectation of saying, oh, well, we have endless resources now, then why can't we just go acquire this guy and this guy and this guy? Well, we obviously have these roster holes, why can't we go get that player?That's not the environment right now. We don't have endless resources, we have tremendous resources, but it isn't an endless pot that we're drawing from that we can just go and get player X, Y, or Z. We're still building this thing to a fit, we're taking Michigan players, Michigan type guys, that's how this thing is built, that's how we'll continue to be built, that's what will propel us to sustainable championship level. Yeah, it'd be great if this were just about talent accumulation, and again, Jon, you played a long time, you saw guys in programs and teams that were all about talent accumulation. We're just going to acquire the most talent possible and let it rip, and that could work in the short term, but we truly believe that in order to build a sustainable model for success, it needs to be based on your core values and what the fit is for your program.

On handling the relationship between players and coaches with donors

Sure, so our relationship with our players in this program, we've tried to be as transparent as possible, right, of here's how our valuation system works, here's how, based on, again, what a player has done from a production standpoint, what their athletic traits are, we try to show what the model looks like based on the NFL. One of the things I think that separates us that we've done differently, and again, everyone can do this, there's a million ways to get to the end goal. One of the things I think is our strength is at some places, head coach, position coaches, coordinators are going out there and talking numbers and talking from the get-go on the recruiting conversation. They're talking with their own players in their rooms about compensation. We're not doing that. We're separating that outside, so that's myself and a few others handling those monetary conversations, those value conversations, those compensation questions, handling with our, right now, with our collective who makes these agreements with the individuals. Because what we don't want, the relationship between a coach and a player is a sacred one. The minute a monetary element is thrown into that, it changes the relationship. So what we also don't want is, so the outside expectation that if, well, if player X is getting compensated higher than this player, well, that's what the depth chart's gonna be, and that's simply not true. So if your position coach doesn't understand or know that or have that full knowledge of what it is, then both the coach and also the players in that room can't come back and say, well, they're just making decisions based on those levels. So we've tried to keep the integrity of the process such that let's, this is a part of it, there's no doubt about it, but let's not make it the biggest part. And I think in my opinion, the programs that are making this the biggest part, both in the recruiting conversations and then within their own building, there are gonna be a lot of problems.

On the process of recruiting a high school senior

Yeah, so it is, again, the reality is it's a huge part. But for us, it's not the first part. So coach Moore and I had the opportunity to be on the road for the last three weeks. We had conversations about the system. We had conversations about the timeline of what's happening, similar to what we just already talked about with the house case. But if an individual is leading with those questions, that's probably not the fit coming back to, we're looking for individuals that value this experience at Michigan above all else, that's our fit. But it is a part of it. And we'll get to that point in this relationship that we're building. And that's the relationships, the important part of that. That's our tangible goal is how we develop that relationship, because that's what's going to matter. And that's what stands. So it is something that we start the conversation, we talk about. It's not our lead, but it's the reality of this business now.

On the dynamic between him and Sherrone Moore

So we are constantly throughout every day, week, month, in constant communication about what this roster looks like, what the vision is, what the strategy is, how we're gonna execute getting there. The interesting part about this, again, this revenue share plan, tied with it is this 105 roster limit. So to give perspective of we were much higher than that in past years, 85 scholarships, but 136 on the roster last year. So now that the NCAA has said, we can have 105 total capped on the roster. So it's gonna look much more like an NFL system of 53 on the active roster. So when you work in the NFL, you know very quickly when you look roster to roster across the league, you know generally how many offensive linemen are gonna be under 53, how many linebackers, how many corners. It's funny, I was just explaining to a player saying, do you know where the 53 comes from? So there are three special teams players, kicker, punter, and snapper. And generally there's 25 players on offense, 25 players on defense. It may plus up one or two on either side based on situation, injury, whatever it may be. But again, the NFL wants you to believe a lot of this is calculus. It's pretty straightforward. So 25, 25, three. So now if we're at 105, we have a goal and a vision of what each position, how many we need at each position. Again, coming back to that idea of talent accumulation versus team building, and a talent accumulation approach would be, let's get, if we're gonna have eight running backs on the roster, in 105-man roster, let's get the best eight running backs we can. Let's spend to get this. But again, like any market, where you don't have infinite resources, is that the best deployment of your resource to go get the eight best running backs? Because how many are gonna touch the ball? So you have to start thinking about, again, with a capped amount of resources, how do you best allocate for, if you have five quarterbacks, eight running backs, 12 receivers, whatever it may be. You start to then work, myself and Coach Moore talk every day about what those numbers should be, what it should look like, what the targets should be, how we're gonna build this, not just for next year, but build it in years beyond.

On the dynamic of recruiting players between head coach and GM

I think what probably makes our situation unique is the process we've implemented. I'm a process guy, right? That's just what I've grown up in, both in a military career and in a football career. I love system and process. What picks our players, ultimately the head coach is responsible for, he's the chief executive of the program, but the process gets us to making those decisions. So the more accurate and disciplined we are with the process, those decisions aren't that ultimately, well, we're doing this over everything else. The process is leading us to conclusions.

On why he decided to come back to Michigan

Yeah. So a couple of things. So I tell this to families and recruits all the time. So I had the unique opportunity of working in the NFL and being in a lot of college football programs as we were scouting and evaluating players from across the country. My family and I, we love what we were doing in the NFL, loved the personal professional experience and being exposed to that. I found myself continually walking in these buildings with great players, great coaches, great structures, and continually finding myself thinking in the back of my mind, like, it's just not Michigan. You know, go to the next place. It ain't Michigan. Whether I knew it or not, subconsciously, that was always my benchmark. And not just again, because the players were this or the staff was this, or the building was this. It was, I understood and knew what this culture was. You know, we get to a national championship in 2023. That didn't happen in one year. You know, that was four or five years in the making of building. Again, of building this the right way with the right players, the right fits. I'd go in a lot of other buildings and I just didn't find that. So I valued that tremendously. And I think when you're in any situation in any walk of life, any world, you know, you realize at a certain point that you value the people, the relationships, the culture, the environment, you know, far more than anything else. And the other aspect that the NFL is interesting, both it's a very transactional world, literally, right? Players can come and go. Staff can come and go. I thought it was fascinating. My first combine, I met a coach at a different, in a different building. And I always thought it was interesting if you meet the Titans coach for X team, when they introduce themselves at a place like that, you know, and hearing them say, well, I'm, you know, so-and-so, I'm a Titans coach in the NFL and I work for this team. That didn't register for me, right? It was, I'm a coach in the NFL. I happen to work for this team. When you're in college football, so much of your identity is tied into the program, the institution that you represent. And I love that. I'm drawn to that. And I believe that, and I want my family to be a part of that. So this college environment, as rapidly as it is changing and as seemingly crazy and all over the place, there are things that I very much value and I wanna be a part of. And maybe it's, you know, again, coming back to the military background of me, I don't wanna run away from a challenge. I wanna run towards it, right? We're in a challenging environment. How do we operate best to maximize performance in that challenging environment?

On whether the House settlement will help stabilize college athletics

It's a step. And it's the first most tangible step that we've had. Is it the final one? I can't imagine it is. But it's the first and most notable step towards change. So again, this is a rapidly changing environment. It's gonna look very different in these different segments of the next few years. But it is a first step.

On what a world would look like if a judge doesn't sign off the agreement

Yeah, well, we've seen some states right now that have preemptively, either whether it's through a governor's executive order or actual special legislation, that have put through the ability for public institutions to compensate student-athletes ahead of the agreement or up until the agreement is settled. So I believe, in my opinion, that especially if we get to April and we see that this is not looking positive, I think that's the natural response is that from a state level, we've gotta start seeing that because institutions across the board are already planning on executing this plan, executing this. And so that, in my assumption, would be that's the path we need to go because the trains left the station.

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